Strategies for Real Estate Development in Overlooked Communities: Mikial Onu - Founder and CEO Onu Ventures

Garrett (00:00:00) - Hello. Welcome to the pod with Garrett Elconin. And this is where I interview local entrepreneurs and solopreneurs, ranging from business founders and entrepreneurs to creatives and artists, to peel back the curtain on on their success and their stories so that hopefully we can extract some tools, tips and tactics that they use to become successful. And through that, I hope to inspire you, the audience, as well as hopefully give you some tangible things you can apply to your personal or professional life so that you can grow and live the life of your dreams. Hello everyone! Welcome to the pod with Garrett Elconin. I'm looking forward to today's conversation with Mikial Onu. He is the CEO of New Ventures, a real estate development company. Onu Ventures has been recognized for its innovative designs, transformative locations, and expert land planning. Mikial played football at SMU and Colorado, where he got his master's degree. His leadership and vision have earned him awards such as CEOs 2023, Emerging Commercial Real Estate Leader Award and the 2024 Dallas 500 Award for the region's most influential business leaders.

Garrett (00:01:16) - I'm excited for this conversation to speak with a very ambitious young developer looking to make an impact in areas that often get overlooked. Mikial, welcome to the pod.

Mikial (00:01:26) - Thanks for having me. Thanks for the intro.

Garrett (00:01:29) - Yeah, so really excited to to dive in here because, real estate development is also what I'm currently into. So let's start off, why real estate development.

Mikial (00:01:38) - For me personally kind of fits my personality. I really treat each development as its own separate project, its own separate business, and allows me to kind of explore the lanes within that specific project. So we may have a project that's, you know, ten acres, but it's in a, you know. Well traveled, high traffic location. And so you want to make sure you're leaning into more urban form development, and then you have projects that are 45 minutes outside of city centers. And, you know, with those projects, you're trying to figure out how can you involve the community, what can you what kind of destination can you create that either one, represents the lifestyle of the people that are currently there, or to represent the lifestyle of a population that you think is headed that way.

Mikial (00:02:20) - and how or how do you kind of, you know, find that balance? So, that's me personally. It's kind of like if it's my fits, my personality, it's a lot of things happening at one time. As you know, you gotta you work with architects, so you're designing things. But, I'm also a finance grad, so I'm working on the financial side of everything. We're working with engineers who are very technical. You're working with politicians and city officials, which can be, very fun. you're working within the community, and you got to talk to people and get their feedback on some of your plans. And, and so it's really like it fits kind of who I am, which is a juggler of many things on that.

Garrett (00:02:54) - I remember someone telling me, you're you're a jack of all trades and a master of none.

Mikial (00:02:58) - Exactly, exactly. That's and that's me to a tee. And the other side of it is, you know, I feel that there's a large gap, in the quality of the developments that take place in some of the underserved areas.

Mikial (00:03:12) - And I think and I'm we're going to talk about it a little bit. But I think when people hear underserved, there's this kind of negative connotation to it. And really, what I want people to understand is where we do our developments and where we do business. These are very prosperous, prosperous business areas, or they have a lot of economic improvement or advancement happening in real time. I mean, we're in places that have a lot of jobs, a lot of, you know, in place, demographics that support our projects. and they're right outside of, you know, major city centers or within the city centers. And so I just feel that, you know, a lot of these communities, the pace of development kind of skips over, you know, where, you know, these our developments are simply because the developers in that area are not familiar with that region, uncomfortable with operating in that way. And the ones that are, maybe don't have the ability to do a project substantial enough to really kind of accelerate that path of development in that market.

Mikial (00:04:13) - And so, you know, my thought process behind it is, well, let's, let's let's show that we can do high quality projects in these areas, without having to gentrify the area, which we'll talk about, without having to invite a totally new demographic in, let's do a quality development that people who are living and working here can actually be a part of and kind of, you know, reestablish these communities and, and really provide a platform for these communities and the people within the communities, to grow from and hopefully incite new development that kind of follows that same kind of quality in that same path and trajectory. So, it's really I love it, as you can tell. I mean, I actually love what I do. It doesn't feel like work to me. and the challenges that we have are all fun because I know we'll figure them out. And once we do, it'll make for a great story. And hopefully it shows. You know, it's a blueprint for people to, you know, take the jump, take the leap, go into these areas, invest in these areas, market rate development, private investment and help, you know, these areas grow so that the whole city, the whole community and region can kind of get to a more prosperous place.

Garrett (00:05:17) - Well said and really excited to dive in, like you said, and go a little more into detail about, expand upon a lot of those elements that you touched upon there. So you talked about design. You talked about working in the community. You talked about kind of, placemaking and working with kind of politicians. So overall, what about development? And or I should say, what about real estate and the industry do you like so much?

Mikial (00:05:42) - It's all things, honestly. it's it's really finding the balance between all things. Right. So I'll give you an example. We'll have a project that's in a new area that hasn't seen a lot of development. Well, our first order of business is explaining the process to residents, right. Especially if we're going to rezone. So you have to be able to explain it to residents who don't necessarily understand, you know, what you're doing, what you're looking to do. And to most residents, no matter where you are, developers or bad guys, right? Or bad girls, and they don't want to see it, they all they think about is tax, property taxes going up.

Mikial (00:06:18) - you know, new people coming here and pushing them out, especially people who have been here for decades and generations. So it's it's a challenge to try to explain the process and explain why you're doing things to them. Now, you supplement that with with the design process. Right? And so you get to design a building that people want to support. And that's from the, you know, community side and from the political side. Right. And you have to make sure, you know, the the politicians understand that you have the community to support and vice versa, because they help each other. Right? So that's all kind of like phase one when we have a new. Project. Phase two is, well, typically, we're doing a development that, either hasn't been done in this area or hasn't been done enough to really show proof of concept. And so you're having to pitch this idea to people, who aren't used to developments in this area or used to this specific, the specific project in this area.

Mikial (00:07:17) - Right. And so you're kind of crafting the story, and you have multiple readers and listeners. And when we go and speak to the people who are potentially investing and supporting the project, they don't understand it. It's, well, look what we're doing. Look at the design. Going back to design. You know, this is super nice. What if this was in your community? Would you go. Absolutely. So you would go in your community where this actually exists, but you think that there's not demand in this community where they haven't seen anything like this before. Right. So it's crafting that story and then, you know, phase three, making it all make sense financially. Right. And that's it can seem kind of smiling. But that's where I get I get excited about it because people think that. And part of this true, the first step to kind of helping some of these underserved areas through subsidies, right through a lot of government involvement. And I've been a part of that process.

Mikial (00:08:07) - It's not fun. So our goal is to, you know, show people that you can invest your money and get a market return and do good, you know? And so while we're modeling, while we're, you know, crafting our pitch decks, while we're, you know, pitching this project to potential investors and lenders. And, you know, I don't ever lead with, oh, look, you know, at this, I want to tap into the intrinsic desire that you have to help. No, just look at the model, look at the return metrics and see if you can make an investment. And then we can talk about what it's doing in this area. And so I love. The ability that we have to be able to craft this narrative to multiple parties in multiple types of parties. And frankly, you know, I've been, you know, I went to school at two PWI, right, with very, high net worth individuals, but I'm not from that, you know. And so and I also played sports my entire life.

Mikial (00:09:04) - So I've seen, you know, all these different types of people and, that come from all different types of, you know, walks of life, religions, socioeconomic classes and, and that kind of translates a lot of development because you're doing the exact same thing. You're talking to investors, you're talking to lenders, you're talking to, people in the community, of course, politicians. And so I enjoy so much because it just allows me to, to just be free and just figure out a way to make it make sense to all parties. And it won't always matter of fact, it actually never will. But hopefully, if you if you, if you're doing it, you know, with your heart into it, the proof will be in the progress. And then once you have a couple of these, then people can start to, you know, understand. Well, okay, now I see what they're doing. And by that time you've built a brand and you can kind of replicate that model in multiple areas, like where we do business now.

Garrett (00:09:57) - So and set an example and then keep going from that and building on it. I love what you mentioned about crafting a story and a narrative, because that's what it is on multiple fronts. But before we dive into that, it is ground up. Development is what you do, what I do. And so basically what that means for the audience is you acquire a piece of land, it could have a structure on it or not, but your intention is to build a new structure. And so you back into buying that piece of land through a financial model. And in that model, you project what you're going to build and that has some sort of value to it. And so then once you secure the land, then your objective is to build what's in that financial model. And to do that you need a whole team of architects, engineers, designers, lawyers, so and so of construction team with all the trades. And then you have to get the entitlements and the permits, which is what the city comes in.

Garrett (00:10:58) - So they have a code. And so you have to abide by rules in the code that govern density and govern other design elements. So you get approvals and it can be as quick as maybe a nine month process. Yes I said that's quick because you could also go to other parts of the country where it takes, two years to ten years to even longer to just put a shovel in the ground, which contributes to many things such as housing affordability and and the lack thereof and many other downstream effects.

Minimal (00:11:32) - Absolutely. Yep. There you go. It's a great explanation. That's a great explanation.

Garrett (00:11:36) - Well, let's kind of double click in the storytelling. Yeah. Yes, I'd love to. So what does it mean to you to tell a story to the community and the stakeholders in that realm?

Minimal (00:11:46) - Well, I think the first step to storytelling is actually listening. you know, when we the first thing that we do when we go into new areas is talk to people like, hey, what's going on here? You know, it's amazing what the type of answer you'll get if you really, you know, ask an open ended question like, hey, how's life out here? You know, and.

Garrett (00:12:04) - What are some of the answers that you got and that have surprised you?

Minimal (00:12:07) - well, when we first started working in southern Dallas, and I wasn't familiar with the area, everyone just kept talking about how far they have to go to go get something to eat. You know, it's like, hey, you know, how's life? you know, what are some things you wish were here? That's kind of what we ask. So, like, what do you wish was here? Right? If you had the ability to do anything across the street from you, development across the street from you, what would you do? And that question can give you a whole suite of answers. But, the most interesting one that I've heard thus far has been, well, I would put you here some, you know, here. Oh my gosh, I've heard all kinds of like, well, we put a high rise here. Well, you know, we're in, you know, 40 minutes outside of a city center.

Minimal (00:12:47) - So it's unlikely. And, that's actually not even in the zoning code because there's just no way it'll happen. But I hear you, what else? Grocery store. Okay, a park. Okay. a new school. Well, this is two acres, so it's kind of small. but people have different answers. However, if they've been there long enough, you'll typically hear the same answers over and over and over again or similar. Right. So there may be an answer where it's a grocery store. Right. And then someone else will say a place to get food or a place to eat and shop. Right. And these things kind of all go together. And it's just they're they're looking for retail, you know, and that's why it's important for us to we call it, like, knocking. On doors, right? You're going to door knock, right? Just. Hey, we get a new site. Just knock on somebody's door.

Garrett (00:13:48) - Boots on the ground, talk on the community. It's on the.

Minimal (00:13:50) - Ground. What are you missing here? And, typically, you'll get the same answer or a similar answer. No one's. For the most part, people don't give you, like, very outlandish answers. It's very. And it's visible. You know, another thing we do is we drive around and you can kind of see what you're missing, especially if you've been to enough places to where you kind of know what to expect. You should typically expect within a 35 mile radius school. single family homes. high density, apartments or or even housing, like build to rent townhomes. a park. some kind of government building. A grocery store and restaurants, and the absence of just one of those things is going to deteriorate the city and the people in the city, and the experience for the people in the city, right, or in the community. And so we kind of know what people are going to say because we do that. But a lot of times it's a there's a glaring need for something or there's multiple things.

Minimal (00:14:51) - And that's when we kind of have this holistic approach to try to do multiple things in one place or across multiple sites in a specific area. So it just kind of depends. But we've heard some funny stuff, but for the most part, it's been pretty consistent with what we're seeing already.

Garrett (00:15:03) - And I think that just your answer to what's the most important part about storytelling is listening. And so many people think about a conversation is about talking and talking, but. Listening is the fundamental aspect of having a great conversation and feeling heard and, feeling that you're being listened to, which is great in development, but it's great in all aspects of life.

Minimal (00:15:27) - Especially if you're going through the rezoning process. You actually have to have community meetings. And so you never want the first time someone hears about you to be at a community meeting, that's when you get berated. and it's happened to me before. You know, I'm young in my career, so you make your mistakes and, Sam and so, And so we definitely just showed up.

Minimal (00:15:47) - Hey, look at this 15 acre master plan we're doing across the street from you. What do you think? You know? Who the hell are you? So, it helps us in both. In both regards, because one, we've talked to enough people, they know who we are, and they know that our our heart's in the right place, and we're we're not going to do anything without talking to people. It's and it's, you know, one of our philosophies just I am third, I'm a religious person. So I'm sorry if that offends anybody. But, you know, when we want to make sure we put God first before everything and second is others in their communities and then third is what we want. So I feel like a lot of the bad rep developers gets because I have what I'm going to do, I'm going to slap it anywhere I want. You know, if I do podium style apartments, I'm going to do it wherever I want to. If I do garden style apartments and I do 100%, you know, siding.

Minimal (00:16:31) - And I want to have, you know, unit sizes from 700 to 950ft². And I want to have, you know, very simple amenity centers and, you know, I want to make sure that it's affordable or affordable to workforce. I'm going to do that wherever the market season, you know, and we really take an entirely different approach. And it's we will we will form, a development based on what we hear. So we go in, it's like a canvas. You go in, you let other people kind of throw paint on the canvas. We go in and actually paint it, right. You just throw in different colors throwing, you know, different, different sketches on it, and then we'll kind of craft it from there. And so people appreciate that. And it makes the zoning process and other process in general. I mean, even just opening, especially if you're doing like retail, right, it's hard to do retail in some of these areas, especially if you don't have support there because they're not used to it.

Minimal (00:17:24) - Who your tenant is going to be. You can't go grab Kroger's. They're not going to want to be there. You can't go grab, you know, you know, a national chain, you're going to have to work within the community, grab tenants that have successful, businesses that are in second or third gen, you know, storefronts or they're e-commerce and just looking for first gen product. Right. But they are well known in the community, do events in the community. They have farmer's markets, etc., and those become your tenants. And so people want to be there to support those. And so, we've just found that, you know, talking with the community just makes everything easier. And when we do go to present, it's not the first time people are seeing it. And if it is the first time, well, then there's people there that are vouching for us. One and two. At least enough people have given us enough feedback to where we're not way out of left field when we come, and that's important to us.

Garrett (00:18:16) - I totally agree on that. Last point as well. Is listening to feedback is one thing, but also incorporating it into the development so you can point that out and say, here's the feedback we received, and here are the action items we took to incorporate it in. And they feel listened to and heard and that their opinions matter.

Minimal (00:18:34) - You can explain that too. Like one thing that I feel like I've done a good job of thus far explaining how I get to things right, explaining why we're doing certain things, explaining why we got to this unit count, explaining why it has to be 240 units, explaining why it has to be 10,000ft². If you take the time to explain it in a way that it makes sense. And, you know, part of that is my upbringing, because I've had to explain things and I've gotten explain things to me, things explained to me by various people. And you have to kind of find a way to explain it to wherever your audience is and explaining, like, hey, I hear you.

Minimal (00:19:10) - You know, I really wish we could have just one building here and the rest of it be green. Here's why we weren't able to get the land at a at a low enough basis to where we could afford to have one building actually generating income, and the rest of it be greenfield. Right? Sure. The counterargument is that, you know, the the rest of the landscape will be so beautiful that it attracts more revenue. But I have to also explain that to a lender and an investor who may not understand that. Right. Or or maybe they understand it, but they have their checks and balances in their communities that are like, well, this hasn't been done here before. What makes you think this can actually be done, even though someone in the team believes in it? the whole bank or investment committee may not. And so explaining that, explaining the process like, hey, we took that feedback, we tried to make it fit. We couldn't do this. But here's a close alternative.

Minimal (00:20:03) - What do you think about that? Right. And we have a project, in southern Dallas right now that we're in rezoning on. And it's been a lot of that. It's been we're at month nine now, which is fine. You know, just going back. And fourth, there's improving improving the product. and if it gets to the point where it's not feasible for us, it's not feasible for us, right? But we're never going to come in and stop what we want to do without making sure that it represents at least the majority of the people's wants in the area.

Garrett (00:20:30) - So and you mentioned this product in South Dallas. Can you give a little bit more background on this project and what you're excited about what you're doing there?

Minimal (00:20:38) - So it's a 12 acre site. Well, it's a 12 acre site today. I think that there's going to be an opportunity to make it a 23, 34 and then 45 acre parcel. master plan. Wow. but it's a student housing concept, with some other uses.

Minimal (00:20:53) - So essentially, what we're looking to do is recreate, the Boulevard at SMU for those familiar in this location in southern Dallas with the University of North Texas at Dallas. we're looking to do about 9000ft² of retail on this 11.5 acres. 53 townhomes that are going to be rent by bedroom to students. And then about 38 single family homes, kind of like clustered housing, but not so much. They're going to have their own, they're going to be separately plotted, their own backyards. But there's also going to be, a shared park that everyone kind of can, can utilize. and then hopefully if we can aggregate enough, enough land, we can replicate that on the other side of that boulevard and then branch out from there. But I'm excited because, you know, a lot of people don't know. And I'll get into specifics. we're working with the University of North Texas at Dallas Utd, and they have about 4000 students enrolled, the fastest growing public university in Texas. they're the only four year public university in Dallas proper.

Minimal (00:21:57) - And they have I mean, they're growing like crazy. I mean, they got they announced the new $100 million Stem building, a new police academy. And, they've seen enrollment. They've seen an enrollment double and triple over the lot since really Covid, right. And nobody knows about it because it's in southern Dallas. You know, you go below 30 and there's less conversations being had. And it's this beautiful campus. It's their their 14th year being a school, beautiful campus. And we're right at their front door. and so I'm excited because. how often do you get to shape, you know, the pattern of development right near a four year public school. Imagine owning the land across from SMU. Imagine owning the land across from UNT. Imagine on the land across from UCLA or USC. Right. And so for us and for the community, it can show people kind of how development in this area should go forward from that point. And it's still an underserved area. You know, that school is there, but it's still blighted around the campus.

Minimal (00:23:02) - The campus is beautiful, but there's still a lot of work to be done around it. But, you know, with this project and a couple of other projects that are hopefully, in the pipeline, you know, it can kind of just shape, you know, the pattern of development there. And so it kind of works from from us to politicians to community members. Politicians should expect a certain level of quality, for developments in this area from now on, you know. the next person that submits a project for rezoning. If they're going to be thinking here. So if your project is here, it's not going to get approved, no matter if it fits within the code or not. Right. If your product is here, well, absolutely. But then the the benchmark or the the the the the level of quality has been raised. Right. And so that also works within the community whenever you're having community events. Well, we're expecting this.

Garrett (00:23:52) - High.

Minimal (00:23:52) - Standard, you know what I mean. And so that's what I'm excited about.

Minimal (00:23:56) - It's it's a great opportunity to, to kind of shape how development transpires in this area really forever. and as that school grows, hopefully, you know, our project will grow as well. we have a great relationship with them. They've been very collaborative. They supported the project. And, you know, we've worked with they've given us feedback, our our plans today. They're not what they were, you know, nine months ago or longer than that because we're under contract for months. But, they've given us feedback. The community has given us feedback and has given us feedback. Council members are giving us feedback. lenders. Investors are giving us feedback. Potential partners are giving us feedback. So and it's up to.

Garrett (00:24:35) - You to incorporate it and say yes, say no and all that. This project, among several other that you're involved in is why I really want to speak with you, because not only are you, the location of where these developments are, but the uses and, you know, really creating a community with several different uses that will hopefully be synergistic and not just provide housing or not just provide retail or not just provide office space.

Garrett (00:24:58) - You're providing it all in one area, which really helps the entire community and helps lift everyone up. And, it's not easy to do and it's, it the end result is powerful and so really, really admirable that you're, you're taking that on because you could definitely just say, no, I want to build apartments or I want to build one thing specifically, but whether it's 20 acres, 40 acres, 50, that's a lot of land to deal with and a lot of uses and complexity.

Minimal (00:25:32) - Absolutely. And we on about, 24, about a little over 60 acres just in that kind of two mile radius area of 75241 zip code in southern Dallas. And when we purchase our first 12 acres. it was just going to be townhomes, you know, just just townhomes. my background is in residential development. My partner's background is residential. Residential development. Nobody knew anything about retail. But when we talk to people, everybody kept saying, matter of fact, they were opposed to the housing side of it and wanted more retail.

Minimal (00:26:07) - But then, of course, we explained why we need both. And so we we included retail into our plans. and then we talked to retailers and, you know, talk to brokers in the area that specialize in retail and even, you know, we had a hard time getting tenants. And so then it was like, well, again, let's talk to the community again, tell them what we're seeing. Well, we actually want a grocery store. Well, I hear you. This is kind of it's in a very suburban area. It's in line. It's it's not it's probably 12,000 vehicles per day. Crossed that across that site. That's not enough traffic to get a an Albertsons there and Aldi there. Right. And it's two and a half acres. So you need more. You need more land mass or something like that. But. You know, what about a little market or cafe, you know, or, a foxtrot, a, an Etsy's and, a Berkeley's? Well, that can be done.

Minimal (00:27:00) - Well, let's talk to them. Sorry. We have you know, we're on we're in Turtle Creek or we're we just open the Bishop arts. And even that was like, I don't know, we're not going to go even further south than that. so I guess we gotta do ourselves then. And so, we then embarked on the, on the plan to start to, you know, think about how we can incorporate a marketing cafe. And, you know, we got to make sure we're watching our costs. we want to make sure that we have enough, you know, retail space to lease out to help offset some of the costs of the marketing cafe. And so it's like that where it's, you know, we've developed as a development company, due to a lot of the feedback that we've gotten and the need for some of this stuff, because I feel like especially in that area, there's a lot of affordable housing that's being supplied there. which is great. I understand the need for low income housing, but what a lot of people in developers that do that don't understand is that that actually significantly hinders your ability to get quality retailers to an area, retailers to an area.

Minimal (00:27:57) - So if you're in an area that's already low income, right. So let's say the average area median income there is, 39,000. Okay. And let's say Dallas County, am-i is, you know, 54, right? So if you go and you do a thousand new apartments that are 50% ami, you're at 32,000, right? And that 50% Ami is going to stick for years right now, of course, it'll go with inflation, but it's still gonna be 50%, am I right? But on the other side of that, you have zero supply at market rate. Okay. If I'm a retailer, the first first two questions I'm going to ask traffic incomes. Right. You know how many rooftops, what are they making. How many people are driving. Well, if the answer here was 39,000. But then a year later it's 36 because of all the new supply that's restricting your income, I'm going to say, well, there's no way people are going to be able to afford my products, right? There's just no way.

Minimal (00:28:59) - And so it's really and we thought about affordable housing and it's like there's already enough of that. They need something else to bring income here or keep income here in this area, which we'll talk about. and that's kind of how the plans develop. So, you know, started off as a residential developer and then, you know, the need for the other asset classes to actually spur true economic advancement led us to offering retail and and.

Garrett (00:29:26) - A desire to live there. People want to live near obviously all of this, this retail. I mean, that's what you that's what I like about real estate is it's where you live, work and play. And so you want to be able to do that close to, to where you are.

Minimal (00:29:39) - Exactly. And people are working there. People are living there. But that's just about it, you know. And so our, you know, our mission is, is to and in this area, specifically in southern Dallas, is to really bring everything that's not missing or as much as much of it as we can.

Minimal (00:29:55) - So the missing middle housing, you know, there's a lot of 60% or below 60% Ami and below housing. What about 60 to 80? 90. Right.

Garrett (00:30:03) - The workforce.

Minimal (00:30:04) - Force. Right. Which a lot of people don't understand. That part of southern Dallas is actually the most populous blue collar workforce district in DFW and probably top ten in Texas, and maybe even in the US. Right. The inland port has 285,000 employees, making 40 to 78,000 within a 5 or 10 mile radius. Right. And none of them are living in, in southern Dallas. in the zip code that I'm talking about, because there's a lack of supply at market rate supply. And so, it's not you know, we're not just doing, affordable. We're not doing any affordable, actually. We're not just doing market rate. It's just it's the it's the trying to kind of create the whole flywheel where the housing benefits the retail, the the retail benefits, the housing, which is supplemented by parks, which is supplemented by upgrades and infrastructure and etc., etc. it just goes down the line.

Minimal (00:30:54) - And that's how you kind of get these communities to go to that next level. Right?

Garrett (00:30:59) - So you're a young guy and development is development and it's a lot around, lessons learned and experience. And you see, you know, you have to kind of earn your, your way up the, the chain, but you decide to say, you know, I'm going to go out on my own and or maybe not on your own, but with partners, but start my own company here. Why? Why did you do that? And what gave you the confidence that you could execute this?

Minimal (00:31:24) - Well, It's funny. I'll go into my background a little bit. I was working with a large homebuilder, out of Florida, and they had a franchising company. So our division so they would find, you know, new builders or builders that were looking to scale, and supply them with infrastructure and, plans. Right? So you know. Hey, you. You're building 10 to 20 homes a year. Come join this franchise program.

Minimal (00:31:56) - And you can scale that to 50, 60 and eventually 500 to 600. That was the premise behind it, right? however, they didn't provide lots or financing. And builders don't care about plants and infrastructure. They care about money and supply. Right? And so I was brought in to kind of help them on the lots and financing side. And so I was working with them for a little over two years, and I kind of gravitated towards Dallas and specifically southern Dallas, because I felt like there was a huge gap in supply and demand there in that workforce. So the timing was about 269,000 was our entry level price. now it's probably like 320, but that too, that 250 to $400,000, price point. we were doing it in the Heights, Houston, which is now, I mean, for you to live in the Heights now, you're probably at a half a million. maybe a little bit less. But at the time, that was where the area in Houston that was ripe for that type of product.

Minimal (00:32:57) - Right. And and I kind of moved to southern Dallas. I knew Dallas better. Again, I feel like I have connections there. And so I was looking and I stumbled upon about 50 acres and I brought that into the group and no one to do it. And I was like, wow, are you guys kidding me? Like, this is like, these are two, two great projects. And you know, well the market or you know, well, you know, we don't understand it. We don't have enough builders out there. I said, well, I'll do it myself then. All right. So I moved to Dallas and then at first I was just looking to get those projects started, you know, and I was by myself at first it was, you know, I was I knew enough about development to get started, but for sure not enough to really do these projects. But I felt that if I could get them started, I could garner enough interest to find a partner, find financing, find builders.

Minimal (00:33:49) - at least that's how I thought about it in my head. It didn't turn out that way at all.

**Mikial ** (00:33:52) - But.

Minimal (00:33:53) - but then as I got into the projects, I was like, this is actually an unbelievable area. Why aren't people investing here? and again, you know, I'm, I'm an investor first. You know, I, I look at things from an investor's lens. I'm not looking at it from, you know, these people need x, so therefore we will do it by all means. Necessary? No, it has to be a good investment. Right. And so I'm looking just all these people that are working here. That are living elsewhere and the places that they're living. Their incomes are being attributed to that area. And these are some of the most prosperous areas in DFW.

Speaker 4 (00:34:35) - So.

Minimal (00:34:37) - In my head. It's. What if we had supply here? Would they come back to where they're working to live closer? If they had the housing, the retail, etc.? And that's how it started, is I had a project.

Minimal (00:34:49) - They didn't want to do it. I wanted to do it. and honestly, you know, my arrogance led me to that, or my ignorance.

**Mikial ** (00:34:57) - Or.

Garrett (00:34:58) - Your naivety. Yeah. I mean, I won't say you're ignorant, but it just. You didn't know. What? You didn't know.

Minimal (00:35:03) - I didn't know any better. And in my head, though, it made perfect sense.

**Mikial ** (00:35:07) - It always does, right? Always does, always does.

Minimal (00:35:09) - And then, and then, you know, as I got further along, it started to make a lot of sense. And then that's when I asked my partner to join.

**Mikial ** (00:35:18) - And then and by.

Garrett (00:35:18) - Make a lot of sense, because you're saying you're looking at the story, and the story is how you sell an investment, a lot of people think that it's just numbers. But what I've learned from some mentors of mine have been, the way you sell an investment is through a story, and you get them to believe in this story that you're going to tell them, and you kind of take them through the journey.

Garrett (00:35:40) - And why? Yes, these numbers make sense, but what do these numbers actually mean in terms of the investment, the product, the service and the community?

Minimal (00:35:49) - I'll tell you. I'll ask you if I told you that there was an area, I might even give you a city. Okay. There's an area that has 6000 people working in this, just in this zip code. They are making anywhere from 45,000 to to 78,000 a year. Okay, 6000 people. All right. And of that 6000, only 2000 live there. Right? And the remaining 4000 are living somewhere else. And where they're living have an area median income of 104,000, roughly anywhere from 88 to 104,000. Okay. Also. What if I told you that? This area that has 6000 people working in it, with only 2000 people living there, has not delivered a new market rate apartment complex in 50 years. Would you think there's a supply demand supply demand imbalance?

Garrett (00:36:43) - Absolutely. And there's there's a reason for it because nothing is there.

Garrett (00:36:47) - Setting the example for the for the other developers to say, oh, wait, I can get the rents that I need to make this deal. Pencil.

Minimal (00:36:55) - Absolutely. And it's and and this is going to go to a larger point that I speak on actually quite a bit is

**Mikial ** (00:37:02) - Development is really.

Minimal (00:37:02) - Tough, right? You got to think about how many people and companies actually have the ability, the capability, and the want to the willingness to go and develop apartments anywhere. Now, you take that, that pool of people and companies and you say, I mean, how many of 100 want to be in this specific area, right. And are willing to explain the story over and over and over and over again until it finally makes sense to people enough to invest in it and during that time are comfortable not only not making money, losing money, spending towards this project. And then you're talking about a couple, if any, right? That's the problem with a lot of these underserved areas, is that the developers that have the sophistication and ability to do it will choose to do it where it's easier.

Minimal (00:37:56) - The people that know the area the best typically don't have the ability to do something of that scale and can't get enough true investment to do it. And so it takes someone or people that say, you know what, I have to just go do it. And for me, You know, it was an easier market for me to break into. You know, land was a little bit less there. I didn't have much competition, whereas I couldn't go to uptown. I mean, I get priced, I'm priced out now.

**Mikial ** (00:38:24) - So.

Minimal (00:38:25) - it kind of just takes it's going to take a developer or a development company that really understands the market enough to explain this. And you have to be able you have to be sophisticated enough to explain this to those who have millions to invest. And that's why a lot of developers in these areas opt for affordable housing, because it's there's I'm not gonna say there's not an investment because there is. But a lot of it is, you know, tax credits. Right. And so you have a you have these kind of like this criteria.

Minimal (00:38:56) - You get the you fall within to be able to be eligible for these tax credits. And so long as you fall within that criteria you're good. Right. And. That's kind of why you face less NIMBYism there than if you tried to go do affordable housing in, you know, park cities, right?

Garrett (00:39:12) - And NIMBYism, for those who don't know, not in my backyard. That's what that is.

Minimal (00:39:16) - Yeah. Less opposition basically from the community. So, it's harder. It's really hard. And the people that want to have to really want to do it in this area, and that's few and far between. And until somebody comes and doesn't or multiple people do it. And I'm not I'm not the first person to think about this in southern Dallas. Like, no, there have been people who've thought about this, people who are trying to do this right now and are doing a fantastic job. but it's going to take us as a collective to, really bring. And then, you know, what happens is, as a byproduct of all these new projects, a new generation sees this.

Minimal (00:39:52) - They see development, you know, you don't know. I didn't know development existed until I got to SMU when I was 19. It was the first time I knew you could buy homes for profit, 19 years old. Right. And so you you kind of breed an entire generation of people that are seeing new quality buildings that they can actually, you know, interact with daily. Right? And so as they grow up, they become the new generation of. You know, earners that can invest in these projects or developers that can do these projects. And then that's how you can kind of that's how you spur the, the the development growth. as a byproduct of actually doing the doing things the right way. No one wants to pattern their lifestyle off of a dilapidated building that has, you know, pawnshop, smoke shop and then, you know. Well, what else is there?

Garrett (00:40:43) - Liquor store or whatever it is? Yeah.

Minimal (00:40:45) - You're not going to grow up saying, hey, I want to own that liquor store.

Minimal (00:40:48) - Yeah. money checking order place and easy porn building. But I do want to go on that new restaurant, you know?

**Mikial ** (00:40:54) - That's cool. Yeah.

Garrett (00:40:55) - And so, speaking of growing up, what did you want to do when you were growing up?

Minimal (00:40:59) - I wanted to play in the NFL. Yeah, I went my entire life, for the most part. there's actually a funny video. my grandfather asked me if football doesn't work out. What do you want to do? And I said, I want to be an accountant. I don't know what it meant, but I knew that it has to do with money. Right?

**Mikial ** (00:41:17) - How old were you at this?

Garrett (00:41:18) - This question I was asked maybe eight. That's awesome.

Minimal (00:41:21) - You know, the video still exists. but I wanted to play football. I played sports my entire life. I was fortunate enough to get a scholarship at SMU. play it there. You know, let the nation and tackles, conference and tackles. Had a really good career there. Graduated early, went to Colorado, let the Pac 12 and interceptions and turnovers and nation turnovers.

Minimal (00:41:41) - Had a really good year there. And then my last practice of my career before my last game. Tibia snaps non-contact in practice on a snow day. And for me, you know, again, I'm a religious person. That's God telling me that I only gave you football so that you can get to this stage in your life and pivot. You know, you've now been afforded two degrees. You've you've made lifelong connections and you've learned so much. You know, I got to SMU very green. I was you know, I got my finance degree now, but when I got there, I didn't even I didn't know anything about any. I was I always felt inadequate in all of my classes because I just didn't I didn't grow up around, you know, I didn't grow up around people that were just constantly pouring financial knowledge and information into me. Right. And so God gave me all these things. But he used football only as a conduit to actually get me to where I need to be, which is finding a way to take these gifts that he's bestowed upon me and disseminate that into the world in whichever medium I choose, which I happen to choose.

Minimal (00:42:44) - Development. Right? so I wanted to play football, and then it didn't work out that way, but I, I pivoted pretty quickly.

Garrett (00:42:52) - And. Can you talk to me? Yeah. When you got that injury, you know what went through your head? Obviously you told us a little bit, but talk to us about how you found real estate or how it found you.

**Mikial ** (00:43:03) - Yeah.

Minimal (00:43:03) - So my mom had actually been, so my mom was an entrepreneur growing up. she had a dance studio in Missouri City. It was like the only black and brown dance studio within, like a ten mile radius. So she was revered within the community. And the opportunity came to do a performing arts center. my mom was not a developer. I sure wasn't. I didn't know that what it was. But, she learned, like, I'm learning. And, she partnered up with the with the good developer, and ended up transforming into a 12.5 acre mixed use development. Now, I was involved, but not nearly as involved as I am into our projects.

Minimal (00:43:37) - So, like, I knew what was going on, I had no input. She asked me for advice and kind of help financially, get some things off the ground and get some design assistance and stuff like that. But it was definitely her project. But I saw it going back to my point, you know? You don't know it exists if you don't see it.

Garrett (00:43:53) - You gotta get in the room.

Minimal (00:43:54) - So I saw a 12.5 acre mixed use development that had performing arts center, retail, a small amphitheater, outdoor seating, you know, outdoor lounge area, clinics in housing. And. Oh, that looks cool, right? So how about I do that? And frankly, I didn't know it at the time, but I saw our struggles, too. Right. but she kind of started that process for me because she made me aware. now, granted, her project was so complicated. She was a nonprofit. It was affordable housing. So you're you're interacting with really all forms of government county, state, federal.

Minimal (00:44:29) - Right. and I just refused to believe that that was the way the development had to take place. And that's why I ended up working with the builder out of Florida. and that's when I kind of saw more and more and more, you know, three units, six units, 14 units, 23 units. Okay. Now I'm starting to get it. And then that's when I finally started of, So, yeah, she, she I got initial exposure through her and her project, which is up now what the housing has done. the performing arts center is under construction right now. and so it kind of just made me aware. And that took it from there and ran with it.

Garrett (00:45:03) - I think you bring up such a great point that you don't know what exists if you don't know it's there and getting exposure. I didn't know about commercial real estate until my junior year in college when I, you know, was going the finance route and I didn't really enjoy the corporate structure. And so I asked, you know, a family accountant, you know, hey, you see everyone's money, what what what's the most.

**Mikial ** (00:45:33) - Yeah.

Garrett (00:45:34) - Indirectly asked that question. I said, knowing what you know, what would you what industry would you go in if you were my age? And he said real estate. And so from there, that kind of spurred my interest of exploring this further. And a couple. Well, and then I had another informational interview with a developer and he said, read this book. The real estate game and the real estate game kind of shows you all the different careers within real estate, which there are so many and all different skills. And I read the section for the developer and like you, I gravitated towards that because you're not just, you know, behind a screen in Excel doing spreadsheets, but you're you're you're talking people, you're selling stuff, you're, working with others, you're building a project, something that's tangible, building community, adding value, all of those aspects. And it just kind of shine a light on on that opportunity there. And so kind of landed in development. But my question to you is for those people that aren't exposed to many different careers and opportunities, how would they get exposure?

Minimal (00:46:41) - It's a good question.

Minimal (00:46:42) - And it it's something that we're trying to solve, you know. My immediate answer is. By, you know, getting in touch with your community. So no matter where you live, there's probably some element of development going on. Right? Something. Right. A house, new retail center. And, or it's something as simple as, you know, the the council member wants to have a meeting and because they're, you know, redoing their their zoning plan for this district. Right. So get involved in your community because you will have access to everything that goes on within your community. Right? On top of that, I think, you know, we've been the beneficiary of, technological advancement that has made it to where we have access just about everything, right? you have the ability to research things, right? You can type in, you know, what can you do in real estate and get pretty much every single result, right? So the first, identify what you're interested in, identify what suits your personality.

Minimal (00:47:42) - And from there the information is there. Right. You look it up. You you found real estate through a book. Right. Or development through a book. Right. and it started with the conversation. So be curious. Right. Talk to people, look things up, read things. And then from there, things kind of get revealed. We're in a place now where you are minutes away from pretty much everything you need to know minutes through one way or the other, whether it's the internet, whether it's a podcast, whether it's, a book, whether it's, you know, you walking across the street and asking somebody what they do for a living, right? To the extent that they feel comfortable sharing, they'll give you enough information to at least either give you a check mark, buy that industry or a job or an ex and you go from there. So both.

Garrett (00:48:29) - Are valuable.

Minimal (00:48:30) - Well, they're valuable. Just be curious, curious, and it'll be revealed to you when it's time for you.

Garrett (00:48:36) - Totally agree with that curiosity. I recently heard that the word cure comes from the word curiosity, and I thought that kind of was interesting to me.

**Mikial ** (00:48:46) - Yeah.

Minimal (00:48:47) - Good. Note that I saw that from you.

**Mikial ** (00:48:48) - Yeah.

Garrett (00:48:49) - And so, you know, from your mom having this dance studio and kind of little entrepreneurial gene, you know, anyone else have an impact or what impact did she have on you and your ability to execute what you're doing?

**Mikial ** (00:49:00) - Her and.

Minimal (00:49:01) - My dad. Absolutely. And my oldest, my second oldest brother. So my my mom's always been, you know, an entrepreneur for the most part, most part, but now is pretty much raised by women. you know, when I was younger, my parents got divorced. I live with my mom. So my mom, my big sister, my grandmother, my great grandmother in my house. Right. But, I got to see her in them. Just work hard, you know? There's no there are no excuses, right? my mom had every reason, you know, at any point in her, in her career to just give up, right? She never did.

Minimal (00:49:36) - My dad. My dad's an immigrant from Nigeria. He got here when he was 17, I believe. And he works harder than any human on this planet. He is now about 70 years old and still works Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday and Saturday for roughly 8 to 12 hours every single day and has never complained and has never. Given me a reason to think he's unhappy, right? It's just that mindset where you have to do what it takes for your family every single day without complaint. The guy I haven't seen him take a day off. Right? and he's helped me tremendously. I mean, development's expensive, and not only is development expensive. Life in general today is expensive. And so just financially making sure that I'm okay to, like, go get something to eat while I'm trying to build this business. Right. And he's helped me with that question, and I have no idea if it's something that he can actually do or not. And he's just done it right because it's who he is.

Minimal (00:50:41) - And outside of the financial side of it is being a sounding board. If if it's if we go two days without talking, he's going to call me like, are you are you alive? Are you okay? and he's giving me, you know, true fatherly wisdom, right? That I didn't, you know, I didn't really have when I was really young. But now that I'm older when I need it, just like, hey, if you ever need anything, let me know. Are you okay? Mentally? Are you okay? It's funny, he's kind of more of the checking on me as a person. My mom is more like, go get it done, you know? but in both of their lives, they're they get it done person. Right. But I think that, as I've gotten older, you know, their roles have kind of shifted a bit. And my mom's not really the lovey dovey type. she's really more of the, you know, you have something. Do you have a mission here? How can I support your mission? what do you need? And are you are you okay to carry out your duty? Now it's my mom.

Minimal (00:51:39) - I mean, I love her to death, you know? Go home. She give me a kiss on the cheek like it's not. She's not like some super like, stern, you know, dictator type person. She's. She's very kind of sweet, but that's her. She knows that's what I need. And my dad knows that she does that. And so he's what I need. and then my second oldest brother, He was an entrepreneur as well, is an entrepreneur as well. And, he's just always been there, you know, he's helped me get a job that I had previously that, you know, gave me enough income to start on new ventures. he's helped me financially as well. you know, he's he's seeing him carry out all of his dreams has been inspiring for me. you know, him starting out just all day grinding and kind of finally getting kind of to a life to where he's. He can choose, pick and choose his battles and choose what he wants to pursue and what he doesn't.

Minimal (00:52:33) - but I don't have any I don't really have any external, you know, outside of the family figures. I mean, I have all the inspiration that I need between my parents, siblings and grandparents. My grandfather as well. I wouldn't even have own adventures without my grandfather. and I frankly don't tell him enough, but, I mean, I love I love him, and he's he's he's, he's helped me get started in a way that is. I can't even explain. I mean, I simply, you know, would not be. I wouldn't have the company without him, and. He is kind of the breadwinner of our family. he's kind of helped. everybody gets started in their own way, you know? My mom had the development, you know, she he he he helped her. He helped me with our first projects. it's still helping me with our projects. but again, another one of those guys that just that never complains. Just working every day. I mean, he's. It's probably in the mid 80s and you didn't work as much as it used to.

Minimal (00:53:30) - but he's still working, you know, and, I think in today's age, in our age and, you know, the Gen Z millennial crowd, no one likes to work anymore. It's it's work from home, which I get it. It's, you know, how do I live this, you know, this four day work week three, you know, three day weekend. It's I don't you know, I think that for our generation, if you just simply work the standard 40 hours a week, you will probably be further ahead. Now you take that and you add another 2 or 3 hours a day on top of that. Well, now you're at, you know, 50, 55 hours per week. People do not want to work anymore. And frankly, the entire culture, in our age group is just it's a problem. And, some of it is because a lot of us got into our careers right around Covid, and it's created an opportunity to receive money without doing anything between stimulus checks and between, different, you know, federal programs and PBP loans, etc..

**Mikial ** (00:54:35) - But yeah, I'm going off.

Minimal (00:54:36) - Track, but I just, I think just I thank them for instilling the work ethic within me. And I love what I do. So I don't feel like work, but I recognize that I'm in that office for ten, 12 hours. Right. But. If I've had this life where it's been relatively easy for me, comparatively speaking, to other people in them, my parents never complained, how dare I, right? If my if my dad got here 17 years old, barely knowing English, straight to college and has built this life to where I have always had a roof over my head, I've always had clothes on my back. How dare I complain, right? Like, how dare I complain when I had somebody move here at 17 years old to support an entire family, not just me and my siblings, but his siblings and his parents, right? How dare I complain? How dare I complain with my mom? You know, was a single mother by the age of 25.

Minimal (00:55:28) - Like I'm older than I'm holding her now, right? And she never complained, right? So how dare I. How dare I not give this everything that I can? Like, who do I think I am to where I am? I have that luxury when other people before me didn't have that luxury and gave it everything they have and I do, and I'm the beneficiary of it, and I wouldn't that's that's, it's dishonorable. and and it's part of the problem with our generation, but I digress. But now I'm just thankful for my family. They've done a great job of of, of helping me out when I needed it and being there.

Garrett (00:56:03) - Yeah, that's I mean, no words. Besides. Yeah, that's super impactful to have the support of family especially, you know, in whatever career path you choose and in development with the long timelines there and, and all the the fires that that you need to put out. So totally understandable. There in one of the articles that I read was that one of the biggest lessons you've learned is to have confidence.

Garrett (00:56:28) - Can you talk a little bit more about why and what that means to you?

Minimal (00:56:32) - My dad always tells me, just do your best, and your best might end up just being the best, right? Someone's going to go down in history as the greatest ever. You know, when when Kobe was born, no one knew that Kobe was going to be the greatest ever. Sorry. That's my take. LeBron, no one knew he was going to be the greatest ever. Jordan. No one knew. He may have told himself while he was training and practicing and playing, he was going to be the greatest ever. But no one really knew, right? But low and behold, somebody became the greatest. So why not us? Right. Like, why can't I be the greatest? And that's like, my approach is. I feel that if I can just dedicate myself to this thing, why can't I be the greatest? Right. And so it's helped me take that. It's helped me in my career because, I mean, I can't even tell you how many nos I've gotten, right? I mean, essentially, we pitched to probably every single bank and.

**Mikial ** (00:57:27) - Investment group in.

Minimal (00:57:28) - DFW. Now, someone said, yes, and they've been great, but we've heard way more no's than yes. but I've never lost confidence, you know, because everyone that's been great has, has had that experience to where everyone's telling them no, and you're just a psychopath that's just thinks that you're going to do it anyway. Right? When we went out to go try to find a retailer for this marketing cafe and no one would do it. And I was like, I guess we'll do it. No experience. haven't opened up a restaurant or a market or anything like that, but I have the confidence that I'll figure it out. Like I figured everything else out. When I started on adventures, I knew basically nothing. Now I feel like I know a good amount. I worked in clinical research. I worked in, I studied interventional cardiology. I knew nothing about. I didn't know what interventional cardiology was until I got that job. I worked in insurance. I was a high producer for Geico.

Minimal (00:58:27) - They didn't know anything about insurance before that. You know, football. I played well. I had good seasons. And just like every single time I really tried to do it, I've at least been good. So how about I get everything into it and figure out if I can figure out if I can be great, right. And if I'm great, then what does that mean for this, for this project in this community. Right. So that's I just I just. I just I really have this unwavering confidence in myself. But I also feel like God placed me here for this, you know? And until he shows me otherwise, I'm going to continue to believe that I'm placed here for this. And there have been times where it's gotten really dark, where I didn't know if I was going to go bankrupt or or if we were ever going to do this project, or if anything, if we were ever going to make money. I mean, you know, developments, you're spending a lot of money before you're before you're making money.

Minimal (00:59:18) - And the longer you spend, the further away it feels. Right. And he's come in and and and saved us and showed showed me that this is what I'm supposed to be doing. So I just don't let the knows affect me because there's a lot of no's. And, I just continue to try to like, you know, find what it is that he wants me to do here.

Garrett (00:59:37) - You need confidence to get up from those nose and keep charging on until you find a yes.

**Mikial ** (00:59:42) - Yep.

Garrett (00:59:42) - Absolutely. Yeah. Until you create a yes through explaining education, whatever, whatever you have to do.

**Mikial ** (00:59:48) - Yeah. Narrative. The story. Yeah.

Garrett (00:59:50) - In development there's as you know, design there's construction, there's finance. There's all the, the lawyer stuff that you got to deal with contracts and negotiations and everything. And confidence is great. But confidence doesn't get you the right answer.

**Mikial ** (01:00:03) - Right.

Garrett (01:00:04) - So how do you walk the line of being confident but yet still being, I guess, vulnerable or being open to learning and asking kind of quote unquote dumb questions or simple questions when you don't know something.

**Mikial ** (01:00:18) - Right?

Minimal (01:00:18) - Well, I think one of the things that has worked out in my favor is that I'm, keenly aware to my of my deficiencies. Right. I'm not an engineer. I'm not an architect, not a contractor. I'm not an attorney. but I know, but I'm also I also haven't done this a long time. Right. And so how do I make my case to where people a want to work with me, but be went to work with me and teach me.

**Mikial ** (01:00:44) - And.

Garrett (01:00:44) - Three give you millions of.

**Mikial ** (01:00:46) - Dollars giving me I'll say it and give me millions.

Minimal (01:00:49) - Of dollars. Right. So the first thing is, I think that I can figure just about anything out, right? I really do think that I really think that if I apply myself and really sit down and research, which is what I used to do, research, I'll figure it out. So I'm not just asking, you know, dumb questions all the time, right? I try to inform myself about the topic enough to where I can ask an intelligent question, and they understand that it's an intelligent question.

Minimal (01:01:14) - They respect me more because of it. So it all kind of works down that line. You research, you ask intelligent questions. Okay. He's serious. Right? Because he asks a question that a very sophisticated developers asked or is not asked. Right. And then now I'll teach him that. And then now I'm learning and it's a flywheel across all, all the different, verticals that I'm working with in the development process. So that's the biggest thing is, is yes, I am confident, but I also know that I don't know things, a lot of things. And. However, I hope I'm confident enough. For you to feel comfortable that once you give me the answer, I'll actually be able to do something with it versus you just just give me the answer. Right.

Garrett (01:01:52) - So an addition to that development is, well, we're the owner, but we have consultants and we have, many other team members and employees on our team that we work with. So how do you surround yourself and how have you built your team to build you up and to complement your skill set?

Minimal (01:02:11) - Great question.

Minimal (01:02:12) - So the first thing that I did, once I had enough, once I had enough land to actually call myself a developer, I went to I went and brought people in that didn't do or that had knowledge that I just couldn't. I couldn't learn without doing, like construction. You're not going to be able to read a book and construction and learn construction. You have to go through a bunch of projects to learn construction, right? There's no I mean, there's degrees for construction, but. That's one of those things where the the most qualified people in contracting construction are those that are able to solve problems because they've seen it before. So I wouldn't found the person I was working with and for at at the company. The building company is the VP of franchising. So I came and brought him on. and he was like, I mean, you're gonna be able to pay me. I said, I.

**Mikial ** (01:03:06) - Think, but work with me.

Minimal (01:03:08) - So you work with me and and he has, you know, Perry, Perry is like my dad.

Minimal (01:03:12) - He's like my real estate dad. he's I'm not going into the to the back story, but he's basically how I got into development, really in the first place. and so he's been a great partner and mentor to me. He's been president of David Weekley Homes, president of Taylor Morrison, VP of he has an own construction company that that unfortunately went under in 2008. And so even conversations like that, like what happened, you know, well, I wasn't diversified enough. Bingo. Let's go do everything we can. All right. Maybe so. Yeah. stuff like that. So he's been great. And he came in and he really he helped his knowledge and experience helped, have helped me have conversations with vendors and consultants and ask questions that I didn't know. And so if I didn't know anything, he could answer the question for me, or he would know which questions to ask, and I would just learn from it so that next time I can ask those questions and I'm a quick learner, he helped me get in front of really sophisticated people within development, and know how to know how to speak right? And know what questions to ask and know what to do and know what to say.

Minimal (01:04:15) - No. Which traits to go to for what? Right? So that's how it started. Now everything else in finance I knew like that's my thing is I can I can make the financials work on not everything but anything I actually like really want to make, make work. Right. So that's one he came in with construction. And then that's really in my opinion, those are the two most important things to have in a startup development company. Everything kind of feeds into one of those two. Right? So all architecture decisions, decisions are either either made for the community, right. Or for cost. Okay. That's it. So if I'm facing the community and he has the construction knowledge to understand costs. That answers that same thing with engineering, right? same thing with just about, you know, geotechnical, environmental, etc. like surveying all of the kind of works into one of those two categories. So, from there it was just finding the right subs. And I want to talk about that briefly because, a lot of people use the same subs for everything.

Minimal (01:05:17) - And they'll tell you.

Garrett (01:05:18) - Can you explain what a sub is for the.

**Mikial ** (01:05:20) - Audience? So.

Minimal (01:05:22) - subcontractor or consultant. Right. So you have, on the design team, you may have an architect, but then you have subs like landscape architecture, you have an engineer. The architect may be the sub, right? You have a civil engineer, you have interior design, you have, structural engineering, mechanical, electrical, plumbing. And so you have all these different subs that are basically reporting to one main contractor or directly to the development company, like we do. Everybody's a sub to us because we go and we have our own relationships with each individual trade. Right. But if the architect went and got all the different trades there, the the other trades are the architect subs. Same thing with with with construction you have the GC.

Garrett (01:06:03) - Then general contractor.

Minimal (01:06:05) - Contractor. You got the you got the the roofing guys, you got the lumber folks, you got the, concrete. You got the, you know, the grading people, you know, all these different people that are working under the umbrella of a general contractor or the main public facing building company.

Minimal (01:06:21) - So you're driving by a site, you see Arcon, I'll shout out to them because I love them. Arcon. That's the general contractor, that's the builder. And then every all the other machines and people you see on site are typically subs. Right. So but what people don't understand with subs is that and consultants. You may have one architect that specializes in podium rap style apartments, right?

Garrett (01:06:47) - And because the podium rap style is just a configuration where one podium is going to be, you know, wood frame, probably around five storeys, could be on top of three storeys of concrete or not. So you'd have a five story to an eight story building, and then a rap is where you have a parking garage, and surrounded by the parking garage is the wood frame apartments most likely. And that's a the rap.

**Mikial ** (01:07:12) - To do.

Minimal (01:07:12) - These, these type of those types of projects are typically in the same kind of area. They're not quite urban like city core downtown. but they're that next level, right? There's like the urban sprawl you got, you go five minutes, ten minutes outside of a city center.

Minimal (01:07:28) - That's where you can find the podium in rap, right? you have other, you know, suburbs that specialize in retail, but they do neighborhood retail, right? You have other suburbs that do rest tenants. They specialize in interiors or interiors, branding, etc.. So a lot of people try to like, you know, use the same suburbs, do a bunch of different things. And what we do is we research top subs for exactly what we're looking to do. So we knew we want to do on our Adelene project. We wanted to do a 2 to 3 story, suburban apartment complex, garden style apartment complex. but we want to make it look like big houses, right? That had bored and bad exteriors. maybe a garage. We had at first, that had a lot of landscaping, a lot of trails that kind of felt like a little, you know, farmhouse village. And so we researched and talked to every single architect that does something even remotely similar until we found the product that especially matches, what we're looking to do.

Minimal (01:08:34) - And then why that's important is because as you're pricing that and you're getting costs on that, if you have an architect that specializes in that, they'll be able to make tweaks to get to your numbers. Right. So one of the things that we did is we, Humphreys and Partners, our architect for one of our apartments, they had a concept that had, one corridor. So one walkway with apartments on each side. Right. And then they had a second corridor on the second floor that the same thing. Right. Well, you know, corridors cost a lot of money. And we got our first round of bid was like, well, we can get this a little bit lower. We're trying to do a non subsidized apartment complex here. So we took out a second quarter on the second level right. Or sorry we kept that right. And so we took the one off the first floor out. And so all the first all the units on the first floor all exterior entry, there's a staircase to get to the second floor where the corridor is.

Minimal (01:09:31) - And then all units on the second floor are two story. So there's no corridor on the third floor, which has created an 88% efficient apartment complex. And so you're not going to get to that if you're speaking with someone that only specializes in high rises. Right. Because they're not going to know they may get to it because they may do their research, but we're able to make on the fly decisions because they're specialists on this same thing with landscape. Right. You may specialize in doing, you know, golf course communities, right? You may specialize in doing, you know, indoor outdoor connected retail centers. Right. Well, then when we start bidding and we start, you know, talking to different tenants and they want this, that and the community, they want this, that we can make all the decisions and immediately know how that will impact the cost, the investment, returns the returns on the project, the, the feedback will receive from the city, etc.. So I think especially when you're getting started, you got to really take your time to find the right subs for your project and the right consultants for your project, because it will make or break your project, especially when you when you're leaning on them.

Minimal (01:10:39) - Now, if I'm an architect by trade and I started development company, then maybe I can do that myself for the most part. Or it doesn't really matter as much because I'm able to give more input. But if you're getting started and you're leaning on an expert, you got to make sure they're a real expert in what you're looking to do specifically.

**Mikial ** (01:10:57) - I think that.

Garrett (01:10:57) - Goes back to our previous conversation where, you know, if you're just in the industry and we're the jack of all, but master of none, then we need to rely on our partners and our consultants and our team members to execute their scope of work in the project. But like you said, we as the owner, need to be able to ask intelligent questions to make sure that they're doing the right thing and that it aligns with the vision of the project or aligns with the cost or whatever, objectives we have for the project.

**Mikial ** (01:11:29) - Absolutely, absolutely.

Garrett (01:11:31) - That's a great point. And the team is what you need. It's a it's a a large project and you need a great team.

Minimal (01:11:36) - So all of our, all of our projects have their own teams. Now there's some projects that are similar that we we can use the same folks. Maybe we have a same civil engineer on two but different architects, same architect, two different civil engineers, same architect, same civil engineer, different landscape architect. so it just kind of depends. But when we start a new project again, we're starting from scratch every single time. we may have a couple of ideas that we're looking at, but then we show those so concepts first that we don't even engage anybody to show concepts, get initial feedback and then boom, what's our team going to be. And we that's how we work. But some sometimes a lot of developers work with one architect. Architect has done a couple of buildings for them. So when they work with that architect again, no matter where it is, it's going to look just like the other buildings, you know, and it's not representative of what that submarket wants, needs and is looking for.

Minimal (01:12:27) - And so we start from scratch every single time and it takes a little bit longer, but we hope that it results in, better rewards.

Garrett (01:12:35) - Yeah, I'm sure it will. Yes. And because your attention to detail is, is so important. So with new ventures, where do you see our new ventures in five years and in 20 years?

Minimal (01:12:47) - Five years? it's a good question. And and honestly, I think about it once a year, New Years. after that, it's, you know, how do we get better? A little better every single day, right? So, every single week I put a goal, a goal list for the week, and then I do a calendar and goal for the day. Right. And I never really looked past a week. But because it's February, as we're as we're talking, it's been about 45 days since New Year's. I've thought about it and I'll work back from I'll start at 20 years. Right. So 20 years. I want this to be one of the most impactful development companies in the US now.

Minimal (01:13:27) - That doesn't mean the biggest. That doesn't even mean the most profitable. I hope the tour synonymous, but doesn't necessarily mean it, right? but when I say impactful. You should identify all new ventures with as a company that has gone into an area that needed quality development, and it's far exceeded expectations, and they've done that over and over and over again.

Garrett (01:13:51) - How do you measure that?

Minimal (01:13:52) - So you measure that by one. community support. Right. So if you interview all the constituents within our, within our communities that we're creating and ask them what they think about our project, we hope that it's, that it's that's very favorable feedback for us. Right. Like, oh my gosh, this is such a great job. And we want I want people like brought to tears like that. Some of the best days that I've had in development is when we have a new project we're announcing or we're breaking ground like we were in Beaumont, two weeks ago. we're doing, 42 units out there. And, you know, people in the community came by.

Minimal (01:14:30) - They were crying, saying, I can't believe this is here. We've been waiting. Somebody's waiting for somebody to come here. we've been waiting for somebody that looks like me to do it. And that's what I like to hear. So I hope that we elicit that kind of response for every single project that we do. or most. Right. and we're known for that. So our brand is kind of like when you think of like Discovery Land Company, right? You have a certain, you know, you hear about a new project they're doing, you know, exactly what's going to look like, or maybe you don't know exactly what it's going to look like, but you know, the price point, you know the quality and you know who's going to be there for the most part, right? When you hear about a new all new ventures project, we want there to be a, you know, a very robust waiting list that's like, oh my gosh, if I'm a retailer in the area, I'm going to make sure I've reviewed all of my books to make sure I can qualify for this product.

Minimal (01:15:21) - I may have never leased first in retail space ever, but I'm going to make sure I have all my ducks in a row because I know if I go and join that community, I'm going to do well because it's going to be so beautiful and everyone's going to want to be there in this area if I'm a homeowner, right? Oh, a new, unadventurous project is being announced. Well, if I was a renter previously, I'm going to go buy a home or I'm about to sell this house. I'll make sure I sell this house and time it appropriately for when these houses are being delivered, right? Or I'm going to move from 30 minutes away to make sure I go join this community. Right? If I am a renter, right? Oh my gosh, I can't believe they're coming here finally. Right. Like that's the type of the type of response that we want in 20 years for us to be known as the highest quality provider of new, transformative, mixed use communities. Five years from now.

Minimal (01:16:12) - if we can be a quarter of the way there. Right. So if we're saying that's 100 communities that we have, well, how about 25 in 5 years, right? but a more, easier approach to have on that is. Our current projects. What do people say? Right. Our current projects. What's the response? Right. We have and you know, it's development. So we have the timeline. But in five years, pretty much everything that we have right now we're developing or planning should be built and it should be, people should be interacting with the site, utilizing the site living. They're working. They're planning their what's the response? Right. What's the demand for us? How many cities are reaching out to us? How many EDC economic development corporations are reaching out?

Garrett (01:17:00) - Man, if you get cities and EDC reaching out to you, you're doing something right.

Minimal (01:17:04) - Exactly. if we maybe we have a metric where we have a waitlist or we just have people subscribe to our email list.

Minimal (01:17:10) - Right. What is that number? How many people are anticipating our projects? So it's hard for me to put a I'm not going to put a revenue number on it or, you know, profit margin or a number of employees. I just want the response for all of our response from all of our projects, to be overwhelmingly positive. And I want to be able to have, say, I have projects in multiple communities like southern Dallas, across the across Texas and the Sunbelt. I think we can get in other parts of the Sunbelt in five years, and in 20 years, hopefully that's around the nation.

Garrett (01:17:44) - Yeah, I think that's that's a great mission. And I think and goals and I think as well as you're you're going in underserved communities. What you said and I think that if you succeed in what you're doing, these communities won't be that underserved because you'll be serving them. And other people will see that there's profit to be made. And whether money be made, people enter and, will continue to rise and, and create more opportunities in the areas and, and provide what's, what's needed because that's what development is, is creating value.

Garrett (01:18:19) - Absolutely. And you get paid for creating value. Absolutely. So that is another metric is how many people are following you? How many other oh, new venture, you know, look alikes, they're exactly. Which is compliment.

Minimal (01:18:31) - Think about like Frisco. You know, maybe I should say that as well. You know, let's say we have a project in southern Dallas that delivers in three years, right? So two years later, you know, you got to kind of see just how successful it's being. It is at that point. But it doesn't stop there. Right? 15 years after that, how many other projects like that exist, you know, exist? So in Frisco, think about 20 years ago, 25 years ago, right. Looks looked totally different, right? Plano. I was actually born in Carrollton, so. And my family is from Carrollton, so I remember exactly how Carrollton Plano looked. It didn't look like it looks today. Right. And so somebody started it. Right.

Minimal (01:19:10) - Five years later people want to be there. 15 years later you have Legacy West, right? So. Another way of kind of you kind of alluded to it as well. But another benchmark for us is how does area look? It may not be our projects, right. But how does Southern Dallas how does when I say Southern Dallas, let me make sure I clear this up. We specialize and we work within the 35 corridor or highway on the west side, and 45 on the east side, and the I-20 corridor as our kind of dividing line on the north and south of I-20. So a little bit below I-20, a little bit above I-20. That's southern Dallas. Okay. How does southern Dallas look in 20 years? Are there a bunch of mixed use communities? Is there are there multiple Bishop arts? There are other multiple lower Greenville's? Are there multiple is there a legacy West out there at that point? Right. Did we do it? Maybe we did it, maybe we didn't, but somebody else did it.

Minimal (01:20:04) - But we know that they did it because they saw, how private investment is being received and how there's actually a market here. And that's part of the people just understand there's a market in some of these places. So we just hope we want to we want again, you know, the there's a there's a quote. The scenery only changes for the lead dog. Right? So we're going to be the lead dog in a lot of our places. Will we change the scenery and will other dogs follow and pattern that quality of development after ours?

Garrett (01:20:33) - That's great. Totally agree. There's a cost to it. So thank you for paving the way on on the education tax there. And, yes, I know it will. Excited to see what you're able to accomplish there and continue to progress there and and happy to to help in any way. Most definitely. Well, I'd like to end with some, kind of more random questions and fun questions here. So we'll we'll get it started here. What's something you have eliminated from your life that's made the biggest impact?

Minimal (01:21:09) - Eliminate it.

Minimal (01:21:12) - I'd say people. There are people that I've eliminated. And it's I have love for people. But you know, this path that we're on, we have to make sure that. We've surrounded ourselves with people that understand me, us, our mission and do not deter from that mission. So, you know, when I moved after Colorado, I moved back to Houston, right? And then in 2021, I moved back to Dallas, and that's when I started on adventures. I didn't, you know, I said that I moved partially because of the projects, but, more so because I felt that my development was kind of getting curtailed in Houston. You know, it's easy to kind of fall into the trap when you're you're from a place and you, you know, you're doing the same things with the same people and you're not really pushing yourself to grow. Right? So, when I moved back to Dallas, you know, my, my, my friend groups changed. I started to surround myself with people who are working hard as well that were building something as well.

Minimal (01:22:14) - And I still have friends that I love dearly in Houston. I'm not saying that, but on day to day, I gotta and I want to make sure that I've the conversations that I'm having represent the type of lifestyle I'm trying to live and lead for the next generation, for my future family and kids, etc.. So people. Eliminating people is a lot harder because there's a lot of history behind it, right? It's easy. It's not easy, but it's easier to say like a thing, right? Like drugs, alcohol. Right. but people are deep rooted into who you are as a person, and it's really hard to kind of extract yourself or those people from your life. when you identify it, it's hard to identify it in the first place.

Garrett (01:22:56) - All right. For the audience looking to boost their well-being, what's your go to life hack or daily ritual that keeps you on top of your game?

**Mikial ** (01:23:05) - This one's easy.

Minimal (01:23:06) - I plan my day every single day in 30 minute increments. So every single I live the same life.

Minimal (01:23:14) - Every single day. I get up at the exact same time. I leave the office at different times, but it's only because my 30 minute increment has been delayed. So like if I did something, if I if something ran over for an hour, right then my my day probably got pushed back an hour, right? But every single night I get on my whiteboard and I plan my entire day for the next day, every single day. I have not missed a day in years, and it has allowed me to be so productive, right? At one point I had four jobs trying to support these development projects. I was a scientist. I was, an insurance broker, I was a developer, and I was, you know, raising money for other builders. Right. And the only way you can malt, you can handle, you know, multiple things and multitask like that is if you actually plan things and organize your day. A lot of people, you know, they love their calendar, they have stuff on their calendar.

Minimal (01:24:05) - And then in the in between that just kind of like just doing stuff. Right. Well, and what we do, which is, you know, development has so many different levers, yet the pool and so many things are happening at once. It's hard to kind of keep that all together. So my life hack is plan your day is organize your days. Like what time are you planning on eating dinner? You know, what time are you planning on waking up? What time are you going to, you know, plan on eating lunch. Where are you going? To eat lunch. Right. at what point are you going to give yourself time to research? I give myself about an hour and a half throughout my workday to research something. And then when I come home, I do 45 minutes of education again, and then I read for another 45 minutes. So that's three hours every single day, no matter what time I go to bed, that I'm learning something or educating myself on something. Right.

Minimal (01:24:51) - I work out, you know, when I get home at the same time every single day. I cook every single day. Well, I cook, I eat home cooked meals most days. Right. and it's very repeatable and it's in my routine, so I don't let myself get out of routine. You know, there's there's never a question of what I'm supposed to be doing. I know exactly what I'm supposed to be doing it every single time. And it's helped. It's made my life a whole lot easier. And I'm able to, you know, easily check off tasks because I've accounted for those tasks. I do my weekly calendar, my weekly goals. And so every single day, you know, my my schedule is predicated on how many goals I can hit. And it's, it's it's been the best thing for me by far, by far.

Garrett (01:25:33) - That resonates with me. in the process of because I have a to do list, but a to do list is isn't the greatest. And what you have to do is take that to do list and put it into the calendar.

Garrett (01:25:44) - And in addition, what you said, you, you know, you wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, maybe, and then, you know, meals and and workout. And that's what your body wants. Your body craves a schedule. And when people say it's so hard to wake up early in the morning. Yeah. For for the first couple random days. But once you get into a routine and your body realizes what it needs to do, it will adapt. Yeah.

Minimal (01:26:07) - And I, you know, and I played college athletics. So it was very much like that, you know, and unfortunately we had our days made for us. So but I think about college, I was so efficient, you know, we I mean, I worked out eight, had class and, you know, did all my recovery before, like, 9:30 a.m.. That's unbelievable. Right. As an 18 year old, you know. So if I can do that at 18, I for sure can do that 26.

Minimal (01:26:34) - So.

Garrett (01:26:35) - No, I think that's on point. What talent do you have that you are not using?

Minimal (01:26:42) - I'm a pretty good singer. I'm a pretty good singer. And I think, well, you'll hear me as if you walk by the shower or you hear me in my car. But I'm a really good singer. And, you know, I make music for my ears only. and again, you know, I've grown up dancing, so, like, my mom had a dance studio. I did everything tap, modern, ballet, jazz, hip hop, break dance, you name it. so, yeah, I'd probably sing that. And I May 1st day. If enough people tell me I'm a good singer, then I may release something.

Garrett (01:27:12) - Well, they gotta hear you to be able to tell you you're a good singer.

**Mikial ** (01:27:14) - Exactly. So I guess we'll go.

Garrett (01:27:15) - To the karaoke bar or something. No.

Minimal (01:27:16) - Well, no.

**Mikial ** (01:27:17) - Yeah.

Garrett (01:27:18) - This has been wonderful. And any last, things we haven't covered? We've covered quite a lot here.

Minimal (01:27:23) - Yeah. I mean, I would just say, You know, there is a way to balance economic good with economic feasibility, and that's our mission. And I would challenge people when people talk about investing in underserved, underdeveloped, underinvested areas. What does that mean? People talk about economic advancement. What does that mean? You going to go put a bunch of affordable housing in a place that already doesn't have money? isn't helpful. There's a reason why you're not doing that in high income areas. I want you to think about why that is and and explore a way to do that. They're right when we think about economic advancement. Let's think about how we actually improve the economic conditions for people in the area. And the best way to do that is to do one of two things, if not both. One, you improve the incomes of everybody that's living there currently, and or you invite a new income in without pushing out the current, the current demographic. So when we talk about how we develop an underserved areas, people will jump to affordable, subsidized developments.

Minimal (01:28:32) - 99% of our projects have zero subsidies, right? So we're thinking about it just from an investment perspective. You know, we invest X amount will receive X amount per year until we have a capital event. Right. That's how we think about it. And that's how it should be. Right. And we want operate in an area where we don't think there is a way to actually make a lot of money over time in this area. Now our challenge is going to be, how do we balance the economic feasibility and the economic good it'll do for us with that of the people that are living there and that will live there in the future. So I just challenge people to when you think about these areas, think about these developments, think about what you can and can't do for these communities. Don't think about you know, this is not this is not a grant. This isn't like you're doing some, some, some good for people who just don't deserve. And you just like throwing money at something you're investing.

Minimal (01:29:26) - Invest, invest. When you talk to us, you're talking about an investment. I'll explain to you exactly how you make money every single year, just like somebody else that was that's doing it in a more urban area. Would or or more, I guess a what the public thinks a better area, right? We just think about it as an investment. It's just an investment. Don't think about it more or less. You can get to the socio economic good after that. But started how can I invest in this area?

Garrett (01:29:56) - You know, this has been wonderful. And where can people find you obviously, on new ventures online?

**Mikial ** (01:30:01) - Yeah, you can.

Minimal (01:30:01) - Find me at, on LinkedIn. My name is Mikhail. Mikhail. Last name is only a company name is on adventures. We're on everything. I think online you can have my emails on there. Shoot me a message to connect with me on LinkedIn. I'm always open to talk about anything. Whether you're someone that's looking to get into the industry, someone else looking to invest, someone that's looking to partner.

Minimal (01:30:22) - and I'm an open book. I'll tell you exactly what I think, and I'll probably overexplain it, but I actually love it. And so it's not a problem for me. But, and if you see me out just in Dallas, you know, like, I'm a very easy going person, you know, I'm very lax. I like talking to people. Maybe that's why people think I'm personal.

**Mikial ** (01:30:38) - Probably. But.

Minimal (01:30:39) - But, yeah, just. I'm easy. I'm easy to find. Like my, like my coach Prime says at, Colorado. I ain't hard to find.

**Mikial ** (01:30:46) - So just reach out.

Garrett (01:30:48) - This has been wonderful. Thanks so much.

Minimal (01:30:49) - Thank you, I appreciate it. It's been great.